You Can’t Have Your Keigo and Eat It Too.

The Japanese language is a great language to learn, especially for those who love anime, but it can be particularly difficult for native English speakers. I have taught the Japanese language to native English speakers in Canada for a while now, and I often see that they struggle with three big differences in particular between the English and the Japanese languages: word order, particles and ‘FORMALITY(敬語/keigo, literally respectful language)’.

Although you could make the learning process much easier by understanding these three important differences between the English and Japanese languages, I’d say understanding ‘formality’ is very difficult even for Japanese people. In fact, it may be even more difficult for the Japanese people, as some leeway is usually given to those who aren’t Japanese.

Formality

Tōhoku_earthquake_high_five

I believe that it is generally considered a positive thing to be friendly to someone in Western countries. Although there are certain situations where more formality is required, friendly personalities usually tend to be well received. In Japan however, the situation is quite different, since the Japanese language has a “formality” system.

It is often considered rude to sound too friendly to a person who is older than you, has higher social standing, or is someone you have just met. I mean, Japanese people like people who have friendly personalities and the same is true for people of other countries.  However, it is generally preferable to be formal and polite when talking to acquaintances until you have developed a closer relationship that allows for more friendliness. Does this make sense?

Boomer

“This isn’t a good morning no matter how you say it.”

In English, it is just fine to speak the same way to everyone, within reason, right? For example, you would say the phrase “Good morning,” to your spouse, your boss, your friends, and to a complete stranger. Some people might omit “good” and just say “morning” but it doesn’t matter who you are talking to. Things are quite different in Japan.

Tell me, did you think, “Seriously? Even good morning is different in Japan?” Unfortunately, the answer is yes. There, you must speak differently to different people based on their age and their relationship to you, even when saying something as simple as ‘good morning’.

Good Morning

Okay, let me illustrate how the morning greeting can be different.  The formal Japanese morning greeting is “お早うございます/Ohayou gozaimasu”, the informal one is “おはよう/Ohayou” and a very casual one is “おっは〜/Ohha~.” This doesn’t mean that good morning in Japanese can mean various things like Gandalf wondered when Bilbo said ‘Good morning’ in ‘The Hobbit’:  ’Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?’

It’s merely a greeting with formal and informal ways to say it.  It is important to remember not only how to speak formally and informally, but to know when to do so.

When you get up and see your family such as your kids/spouse/parents/siblings, you would say, “Ohayou.” Some parents who are very strict about seniority, or even the order of family members, may force their kids to say  “Ohayou gozaimasu” to them.

Japanese office

Photo by FrancoisCad

When you arrive at your office and see your boss, you must use, “Ohayou gozaimasu.” I’m scared to imagine what would happen if you use “Ohayou” or “Ohha~” to your boss… your neck may fly right after you say it.  Did any of you just tilt your head to the side in confusion wondering what that meant? 首が飛ぶ (kubi ga tobu), which literally means my neck flies, is a Japanese phrase meaning to be fired.

Then, what about your colleagues? They won’t be able to exert their authority to let your neck fly like your boss can, but you would speak formally to most of them, especially if they are older than you and/or they had started working there before you did. Many Japanese people think that colleagues who started working before you are all your superiors unless newer ones have the higher title.

Newer ones are called 後輩 (こうはい/kouhai) and older ones are called 先輩 (せんぱい/senpai). For a thorough explanation, check out our guide here. It’s “first come higher status” like “first come first serve”. To the ones you have developed close relationships with, you could drop the formalities and say “Ohayou”, but it may only be outside of office hours because some companies require you to be polite to any colleagues while working. The office is not the place to chat with your friends, but to work.

original

Now it’s getting more complicated, isn’t it? To simplify things, just keep in mind that newer members usually speak formally to older members, unless the newcomer has higher position in the company (I will say however, even though you may have a better title, it is good practice to speak formally to co-workers that were there before you just out of respect). When speaking to strangers, it is always a safe bet to use the more formal version.

When speaking to friends at school, you use “Ohayou” to all of your classmates but not “Ohha~”. It could sound too casual to someone who is not your close friend. Of course to teachers and to higher grade kids, you would use the formal “Ohayou Gozaimasu”. In school, lower grade kids are called 後輩 (こうはい/kouhai) and higher grade kids are called 先輩 (せんぱい/senpai).

Mistakes by Non-Native Speakers

gm

“Get out of my house.”

Now, imagine that a teenage daughter brings her boyfriend home for supper. This boy comes into her home for the first time, approaches her father, and says, “Hey gramps, what’s up?” What would you think of his manners? It’s just as rude as when Anthony Weiner called Republican mayoral candidate George McDonald “grandpa”, isn’t it? If you were her father, and even though you may be be too nice of a person to throw him out of your house right away, you probably wouldn’t invite him back anymore, would you?

However, language mistakes made by non-native speakers usually aren’t as important as mistakes made my native speakers.  I remember the day when my Canadian boyfriend at the time, who is now my husband, met my mother for the first time at a Japanese restaurant. At that time, she was working at an elementary school taking care of a kid who was suspected of having severe ADHD (though his parents never agreed).

He was such a brat.

Whenever she said ‘good morning’ to him, he answered back with ‘f**k you’, ‘shut the f**k up, Grandma’ or something else in his long list of shocking replies.  He also punched and kicked her whenever he was in a particularly bad mood. Needless to say, my mother became so exhausted working there. So while we were at dinner, my husband tried to use Japanese to speak to my mother. His intention was to ask her about that little boy.

He began his sentence like this – “Anata no (your) mukatsuku (annoying/troublesome) kodomo (child)…”. He didn’t know how to say ‘made you upset’ in a polite way so used the word ‘mukatsuku’ instead, which among Japanese people is considered to be a somewhat rude word that is mostly used among friends.  The other problem with his attempt was that he never said ‘school’ or ‘student’, so it seemed as though he was referring to me.  I was the annoying/troublesome child.

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My mother’s face was classic and my husband quickly realized that he should ask for my help.  After everything was explained, it was laughed off by everyone because he was Canadian.  If he was Japanese, it would have been a disaster.  Now it is simply a funny story that we still bring up from time to time, though my husband still cringes when he thinks back on his first meeting with my mother. He wishes that he knew how to speak formal Japanese at the time. He was very happy to get invited back.

Mistakes by Native Speakers

Concept image of a lost and confused signpost against a blue cloudy sky.

Being a native speaker, I get a special thrill every time I encounter a situation when I have to use formal Japanese. As you can see, it’s ridiculously complex even when you just say good morning. The Japanese language has many formal word forms and their use is mandatory in many social situations.

In keigo, there are three main categories: respectful language (尊敬語/sonkeigo), humble/modest language (謙譲語/kenjougo) and polite language (丁寧語/teineigo). Sometimes two more categories are also used, too: courteous language (丁重語/teichougo) and word beautification (美化語/bikago).

I won’t mention the details about any of them today, but it’s very difficult to use them properly in a perfect situation, even for Japanese people. So, when we start working after graduating school, companies usually offer training sessions on the proper use of formal Japanese and other business manners.

face-to-face

However, lacking some proper formalities is not a big problem as long as you are talking to someone in person. You can show your politeness with your face, the way you talk, or your behavior. So, I’d say the most difficult situation is chatting online or emailing when you can’t see their face or hear their voice.

Actually, I just encountered this problem recently when I sent a business message. It was a mass email so everyone read the exact same thing. Many of the recipients were just fine, but there were two people that got upset: one thought it was so vague because of the keigo and the other one thought it was unfriendly because it had too much keigo.

Laptop_facepalm

Later on, I did a little investigating which involved my correspondence and I found out that many of them liked its politeness. Honestly, I got bit confused and felt a little regret that my native language is one that requires these formalities.  I do understand its purpose, but it can be tough to please everyone.  On a more positive note, I was given a great lesson on how difficult it can be to walk the thin line of using formal Japanese.

A Controversy Over if Keigo is Necessary?

Asian-couple-argument-

As you see, using keigo is very difficult, so if you’re someone who would like to avoid learning formal Japanese because you find it unnecessary, you wouldn’t be the only one. On 2-Channel, I came across a thread discussing the controversy over whether keigo is necessary, or not. Please let me introduce you to some opinions out of it.

1他人と人間関係を築くという事は大変煩わしい事だと思いますが、

「敬語」を上手く駆使しなければ円滑な社会生活を送れないという日本の文化によって、より一層人間関係が大変なものになっていると思うのです。

俺は敬語を多用する日本の言語文化が嫌いです。

皆さんはどう思われますか?

It’s difficult as it is already getting along with someone and trying to make friends, but what makes things even more complicated is that we aren’t able to speak freely to each other because we need to stick to the cultural formalities. I hate the Japanese culture, which forces us to use keigo. What do you guys think about this?

7敬語がある事によって人とのコミュニケーションおいてに求められる能力のハードルが すごく高くなっていると思うんです。

コミュ障と言われている方達が沢山いますが、もしも日本に今ほど敬語が存在しないのであれば彼らはコミュ障ではなかったもしれません。

I think keigo makes communication more difficult. There are a lot of people called コミュ障 (comyu-shou), which is an abbriveation of コミュニケーション障害 (communication shougai) meaning communication disabilities. If there weren’t as many forms of keigo in the language that there are, those people might not have been coined comyu-shou.

8下級生にタメ口使われてる

I’ve been spoken to by lower grade students with informal Japanese.

13距離を置けるからむしろハードル下がってる

It’s easier to communicate (for comyu-shou) because you can create more personal space by using keigo.

15敬語は楽でいいよね

上でも下でも同格でもとりあえず敬語喋っとけば問題ない!

I like keigo because it’s easier.

It wouldn’t cause problems when using keigo, regardless of whether you are talking to higher, or lower standing people.

25以前床屋でこんな事がありました。

新人の店員が俺にタメ口で話しかけてきたんです。

俺はこう思いました。

(俺の事なめてんのかこいつ)

俺は腹が立ちその店員の態度に不快感を感じたまま店を後にしました。

その店員は、親しみを込めてタメ口を使ったのかもしれません。

しかし、店では敬語を使われるという事に慣れている俺は、

それをフレンドリーさの表現とは受け取る事ができませんでした。

これは敬語が多用され浸透している国ならではの問題ではないでしょうか。

The following occurred in a hair salon just the other day.

A freshman started talking to me with casual Japanese.

I thought, “Is he looking down at me?”

I got upset and left the place with an unpleasant feeling.

He might have used casual Japanese trying to be friendly.

However, I’ve got used to hearing formal Japanese as a customer, so it really didn’t seem to be a friendly expression to me.

This problem only occurs in countries that use a lot of formalities, doesn’t it?

30 年上年下を気にする必要が無いのでいいと思います。

It’s good with me as long as I use keigo not only to older people but also to younger people.

35そうですね。

私もそう思います。

私はこう思うんです。

完全に敬語、もしくは、完全にタメ口、

どちらかに完全に統一すればいいと思うんです。

そうすれば言葉を使い分ける労力が無くなりますし、

敬語を使われなかったから腹が立つ、といった事も無くなります。

Yeah, I agree. I’d say, we should standardize our language and use strictly, either casual Japanese, or formal Japanese. If we could, we wouldn’t need to waste our energy choosing words and we wouldn’t be upset by being spoken to without keigo.

45敬語で話すの会議とタメ口で話すの会議はタメ口の方が意見バンバンでるんだとさ”

Did you know that more ideas come up in a meeting when people speak with casual Japanese in comparison to speaking with formal Japanese?

5敬語は現代には必要ない

Keigo is unnecessary these days.

These opinions are from 2-channelers who are known to have comyu-shou, so they might be slightly biased. Personally, I agree that it would be much easier to communicate with people if the Japanese language was standardized in either the formal or casual form, but it doesn’t seem like it will happen any time in the near future. So, for now, mastering the Japanese language must include mastering formal Japanese.

Hot-List-Lubricate-moving-parts

It’s very likely that the way the language is today is the very way that it should be and couldn’t work any other way.  Perhaps there are unseen disadvantages to having a language without keigo, or solely with keigo.  One thing is certain however, I really do like the following quote, but I’m sure this won’t mean the end to this discussion for many of you.

Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untravelled, the naive, the unsophisticated deplore these formalities as “empty,” “meaningless,” or “dishonest,” and scorn to use them. No matter how “pure” their motives, they thereby throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best.

-Robert Heinlein


Bonus Wallpapers!

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  • Beetle BANE

    Ah okay! :D Well as long as it works, then good. I was almost hoping for some sort of space-time continuum collapse though, if such a situation were to arise.

  • Miamiron

    Notice the こうはいs got a massive bulge.

  • Moogiechan

    Thank you! Yes, that does make sense. I think in the example in the book, the mother-in-law was touchy about whose family the husband belonged to — if he was in the daughter-in-law’s family, she thought it meant he was no longer in hers(the mother-in-law’s).

    About keigo in general — I kind of like it. American workplaces are almost too informal. I call my boss and his boss by their first names, which seems a bit weird to me even though I do it myself. I think they’ve earned the respect that is shown by using Mr. or Ms. But now I’m showing my age….

  • Beetle BANE

    :X Gosh… wondering-eyes much? His face is up there ^ .

  • Hinoema

    A good book I’ve found on keigo is “How To Be Polite in Japanese” by Mizutani(2).

    http://www.amazon.com/How-Polite-Japanese-Osamu-Mizutani/dp/4789003388

  • Hinoema

    “The reason for this change isn’t grammatical, it’s logical. All we’re doing is shifting the declared responsibility away from the professor.”

    You’ve just summed up a huge element of Japanese politeness right there- changing a direct verbal transaction (that may imply conflict, A vs B) to an indirect transaction (implying circumstance, A and B being affected by a transaction at a slight remove).

  • Hinoema

    At least it’s not Korean; aren’t there something like 7 levels of politeness? Good grief.

  • K1ko

    Haha. Japanese has all these too? And I thought Korean was hard when it came to the language heirarchy.

  • Sugoida

    ありがとう、マミ様。

  • Mescale

    In England, there are levels of politeness but nothing as obvious as in Japanese, and I suppose as I am like a million years old, I got taught how to be polite etc. whereas I guess kids these days are lucky if they get taught anything, (GET OFF MY LAWN).

    Generally in English I was taught, be polite / respectful to your elders, strangers, certain special individuals, like Teachers, Heads of state, Kings Queens, princes etc. ( Although maybe this was a more Victorian kind of thing, and I was brought up by old fashioned peoples maybe? )

    Generally when you meet someone for the first time you should be polite until you gauge the situation and what level of politeness is really required.

    Now I am quite quite mad, so generally I’ve found people aren’t always in favour of crazy people so often my interactions with “sane” people involves, being both polite and not crazy, until I know whether they’re the type who find my multitude of character flaws endearing, because I have to deal with this as well, maybe being polite and politeness is more natural to me.

    Either way I’ve found saying please and thank you, and smiling gets you further than being angry, mean and rude. No really, I do that, what do you mean you can’t tell? :P

    Its surprising the differences between Americans and Englishers, you’d think they were like really similar but in truth there are many very small differences. For instance Americans don’t even have a word for polite, and stabbing someone is an acceptable form of greeting, especially in New York or LA.

  • Mami

    lol

  • Mami

    up where?? :P

  • Mami

    Yeah, I like your 四コマ漫画 situation better, because it’s more funny:P

  • Mami

    Wow, right. It suits to Japanese keigo, too.

  • Mami

    Really!? I didn’t know that…:0

  • Mami

    Thank you for sharing your info!

  • Mami

    Hinoema just told me that Korean has something like 7 levels of politeness…Whoa!!!

  • Mami

    どういたしまして、すごいだ君。熊さんに優しくしてね。ƪ(Ơ̴̴̴̴̴̴͡.̮Ơ̴̴͡)ʃ

  • Beetle BANE

    lol XD above the bulge?

  • Mami

    Well said! The last part was funny:P Does this mean you are from England?

  • Mami

    Yeah, it took me months to get used to even call my mother-in-law and father-in-law by their first names, even though they told me repeatedly to do so.
    I guess I would feel weird calling my boss by his/her first name, too.

  • Mami

    lol
    My husband hates the kanji ‘下’, too!
    And, yeah. I definitely pick up fewer actual words from music than I do from TV shows or movies, as well.
    It brings to mind a mistake I used to make all the time. When singing the song ‘You Are My Sunshine’, I would always sing ‘you are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy WHEN I AM CRY…for some reason. This doesn’t mean that I couldn’t pick up the words correctly but just didn’t remember correctly though.

  • Mami

    i c :P XD

  • Lisa

    I find keigo very interesting, it’s difficult, but interesting. It’s also a huge contrast to Sweden (where I’m from). Swedish is a very informal language. We don’t even have a word for “please” (the way we use “thank you” determines politeness etc), and neither do we really use equivalents of mr/ms. When I adress my teachers I use their first names, and same with the parents of my boyfriend etc. This doesn’t nessecarily mean we don’t have formalities, but they’re subtle.
    This also means that I have a lot of trouble with keigo, because if I remember it at all I feel kind of silly using it because using the equivalents in Swedish (that were used over 150 years ago) would be making fun of the person I’m talking to in a very crude way.

  • Mescale

    … Maybe :)

  • Senjougahara

    Ah I didn’t realize that. I was mainly talking about the random verb replacement like on here http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/honorific

    When I rikaikun する, なさい, and 致す all it says is “to do”. Do these things have separate literal meanings? If not, it just seems arbitrary

  • Mami

    する – dictionary form (明日何する〜?: What are we going to do tomorrow?)-you can use this to your close friends/family, describe your action
    なさい – polite form (この後はどうなさいますか?: What are you going to do after this?) – you use this form to describe an action of someone who is higher status than you, i.e. president, boss, customer, teacher, etc.
    いたす -modest form (頂戴致します: I thankfully receive it.) -you use this form to describe your action when you talk to someone who is higher status than you

    Does this make sense?

  • Mami

    Thank you for sharing your country’s situation. I didn’t know that Swedish is a very informal language.
    I understand that you have a lot of trouble with keigo. Here in Canada, people are pretty frank and many people start talking to even strangers. I still feel a little uncomfortable with it since it’s pretty distinct from Japan. I’m gradually adjusting to it though. So, you may get used to using keigo, once you live in Japan for a while:) Do you have any plan?

  • Mami

    Oh, okay:P

  • DAVIDPD

    In depth and as always, quite an amazing article, Mami.

  • Ami

    I’m from NZ which is very casual :) I understand keigo but I like to talk to people more casually and be friendly (it’s just how I grew up). Like when I go on the bus I say hello and goodbye to the bus driver. If I forget my money when I go to the pools the lifeguard lets me pay later without thinking much about it. My manager puts smiley faces and slang etc. in her texts/emails to me so you know it must be pretty casual lol :D

  • Guest

    I think it’s a bit of a misnomer that English and Japanese are so different in this respect. As others have mentioned, English has many levels of formality as well. Of course it’s true that these rules are not formalized, but doesn’t that make it even more difficult? I think the use of cursing/swearing is a good example of this in English. Often people curse around those they consider to be in their in-group. This happens in my workplace all the time (and often weirds me out). If you look at this from outside perspective, it’s quite a strange way of emphasizing a close personal relationship!

    And as far as お早うございます, in English you might say “Good morning”, “Hello”, “Hi”, “Hey”, “What’s up”, etc. All of these have different levels of formality. Americans are probably much less likely to get upset over inappropriate use of these, but it’s not uncommon for me to be sitting at work and wonder should I address this person with “Hello”, “Hi”, or “Hey” in my e-mail message.

  • Saimu-san

    It varies in different parts of the UK. Something I notice a lot more when I travel between cities (and a border) to visit family. But the thing I’ve observed regarding politeness here is that the vocabulary doesn’t change so much as pronunciation does.

    Each main city and region surrounding it also has it’s own standard accent that is considered a more “polite” version of local speech, but the thicker your accent or dialect the more noticeable the differences are between them both. Usually these standard formal accents are spoken more softly with stronger emphasis on the sounds at the beginning and end of words. There are a lot of accents that drop Ts, Ks and Hs at the ends of words so when they speak more formally they don’t do that so much.

    It’s also really helpful for when you’re talking as someone with a strong dialect talking to someone else with a different strong dialect, in that you have a middle ground where you can understand each other. I end up having to soften my own speech because I know what other folks are saying to me but not the other way around. This makes me sound a lot more polite than I want to be when first meeting people (Which still requires a bit more formality than with friends or family but not so much as a shop worker).

    In the UK there’s a big difference in the way you get treated based on how you speak and in what situation. There’s a stigma towards it, actually. You can be thought of as stuck up or snobby or even assumed to be rich or middle class simply by speaking politely outside of a service based situation and English is your first language.

    That’s no reason to avoid using it, though. Being too informal can also cause the same problems. It’s not something you can just ask someone else for tips on, either since it varies from person to person and they might not be aware of their own mistakes in that regard. Don’t bother asking someone too wise in it, either since they have even more ridiculous standards of what is and isn’t acceptable speech.

    If you’re not sure, speak at the level in which you are being spoken to. If a doctor speaks to you formally, speak formally to them. If a shop worker speaks to you informally, speak informally back. If a friend speaks to you formally, they’re probably joking, but joke back to them in formal speech and then go back to informal.

    I’ve never been to America but I have met a few Americans and they speak about the same regardless of the situation. No wonder they all think we’re posh when they don’t understand the system. Lol.

  • Alex

    I feel like a little politeness is just something that naturally develops. If you don’t know what a person is like because you just met them, you’re going to want to speak to them in a way that won’t cause conflict (especially since that would be a horrible first impression). Basically, I guess what happens is that people just don’t know what to do around new people, so for the most part, language naturally develops a way to avoid any possible frustration. And ironically, that can cause frustration when you’re not sure how polite to be…

  • Rochelle

    In one of my recent linguistics projects, I came across a study that suggested native speakers judge pragmatic errors (when to say what) more harshly than grammatical errors.

    Perhaps of interest, I found the mextchannel on youtube has a cool video series to be both helpful and in line with that Heinlein quote you like so much! It’s called “敬語おもしろ相談室”, and is a little cheesy, but informative.

  • iErika

    the problem with keigo is, it takes a long time for people to open up and be friendly.

  • Mwani

    I was trying to explain that “would” “will” stuff to my ex girlfriend who was Japanese but I was having a hard time of it. You did a good job here. Also, I really like the explanation with the waiter :)

  • CptNerd

    When I was starting in Japanese studying several years ago, my Japanese teacher said the worst thing to do is try to learn to speak Japanese from listening to songs. (私の先生は日本語の先生です、そして日本人です!) I think it has to do with the distortions in pronunciation in order to make the words match the music, in any language. I’ve been able to listen to Japanese pop music, and can occasionally hear words that I recognize, but sometimes the pronunciations of some words throws me off. でもさ、勉強するのは、がんばります!
    =^_^=