Comments on: Beginning Japanese III: Taking Steps http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/27/beginning-japanese-iii-taking-steps/ Learn Japanese Language and Culture Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:42:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Anon http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/27/beginning-japanese-iii-taking-steps/comment-page-2/#comment-18338 Anon Fri, 28 May 2010 14:15:37 +0000 http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/27/beginning-japanese-iii-taking-steps/#comment-18338 Very good article; this is exatly how learning Japanese works. In fact, this is how learning any skill works.<br><br>There's a book I read a long time ago called Mastery: The Keys to Success and Long-Term Fullfillment by George Leonard that outlines exactly what you said. Namely, that your ability in a given skill will rise quickly at first, then you plateau for a long time before it happens again. The best thing to do about this is to simply know that it's coming and accept it as part of the process. "The Master's learning curve rises quickly, plateaus for a while, and with consistent practice, rises again with some regression and plateaus again for a while and so on. The Master knows that Mastery is a lifetime path. The Master enjoys living on the plateau. The Master knows that while he is on the plateau, learning is happening and practice will inevitably raise him to a higher level."<br><br>So enjoy pushing through the tough times! Once you push through your couple of plateaus, you're probably doing better than 95% of the people who have tried to learn that skill (in my experience). Feels good man. Very good article; this is exatly how learning Japanese works. In fact, this is how learning any skill works.

There's a book I read a long time ago called Mastery: The Keys to Success and Long-Term Fullfillment by George Leonard that outlines exactly what you said. Namely, that your ability in a given skill will rise quickly at first, then you plateau for a long time before it happens again. The best thing to do about this is to simply know that it's coming and accept it as part of the process. “The Master's learning curve rises quickly, plateaus for a while, and with consistent practice, rises again with some regression and plateaus again for a while and so on. The Master knows that Mastery is a lifetime path. The Master enjoys living on the plateau. The Master knows that while he is on the plateau, learning is happening and practice will inevitably raise him to a higher level.”

So enjoy pushing through the tough times! Once you push through your couple of plateaus, you're probably doing better than 95% of the people who have tried to learn that skill (in my experience). Feels good man.

]]> By: Anon http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/27/beginning-japanese-iii-taking-steps/comment-page-2/#comment-17382 Anon Fri, 28 May 2010 07:15:37 +0000 http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/27/beginning-japanese-iii-taking-steps/#comment-17382 Very good article; this is exatly how learning Japanese works. In fact, this is how learning any skill works.<br><br>There's a book I read a long time ago called Mastery: The Keys to Success and Long-Term Fullfillment by George Leonard that outlines exactly what you said. Namely, that your ability in a given skill will rise quickly at first, then you plateau for a long time before it happens again. The best thing to do about this is to simply know that it's coming and accept it as part of the process. "The Master's learning curve rises quickly, plateaus for a while, and with consistent practice, rises again with some regression and plateaus again for a while and so on. The Master knows that Mastery is a lifetime path. The Master enjoys living on the plateau. The Master knows that while he is on the plateau, learning is happening and practice will inevitably raise him to a higher level."<br><br>So enjoy pushing through the tough times! Once you push through your couple of plateaus, you're probably doing better than 95% of the people who have tried to learn that skill (in my experience). Feels good man. Very good article; this is exatly how learning Japanese works. In fact, this is how learning any skill works.

There's a book I read a long time ago called Mastery: The Keys to Success and Long-Term Fullfillment by George Leonard that outlines exactly what you said. Namely, that your ability in a given skill will rise quickly at first, then you plateau for a long time before it happens again. The best thing to do about this is to simply know that it's coming and accept it as part of the process. “The Master's learning curve rises quickly, plateaus for a while, and with consistent practice, rises again with some regression and plateaus again for a while and so on. The Master knows that Mastery is a lifetime path. The Master enjoys living on the plateau. The Master knows that while he is on the plateau, learning is happening and practice will inevitably raise him to a higher level.”

So enjoy pushing through the tough times! Once you push through your couple of plateaus, you're probably doing better than 95% of the people who have tried to learn that skill (in my experience). Feels good man.

]]> By: Cornerstonesworld.com http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/27/beginning-japanese-iii-taking-steps/comment-page-2/#comment-16846 Cornerstonesworld.com Sun, 02 May 2010 04:41:30 +0000 http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/27/beginning-japanese-iii-taking-steps/#comment-16846 Brilliantly put, Koichi-san!<br>The business of language study, I feel should go together with tourism and travel - things are very hard for a student of Japanese who's never been to the Old Country.<br>I studied Japanese for over 4 years with 3 private tutors (same one for the first 3 years and 2 others for about a year and a half). In 2007 I completed みんなの日本語 II and mastered the skill set required to pass JLPT 3-kyu. At times progress felt slow, but I worked hard and progress happened. After this point though, I reached a dead end: for the next 2 years I continued to work with my teacher once per week, my daily kanji practice, learning vocabulary, etc. However, even though I understand the theory about how けいご sentences are formed and know a fair amount of upper-intermediary grammar, I still struggle to hold a daily conversation with a good friend about basic things. It's weird - put an exercise in front of me and I can do it, but it takes me 8-12 hours or more to write a one-page letter to my friend about my day (a conflict of too much grammar and theory in my head). Over the past 8 months I've slacked on my study because work intensified significantly with the crisis, but I plan to take it up again. However, I believe now from experience that the only way to push past this step is to actually GO to live in Japan for a few months and/or work for a Japanese company. I know many people flirt with the language for a year or two and think that they can keep it as a hobby, however, anyone over 25 with no Japanese roots and who has not yet made enough money to retire or just coasts through life as a trust fund baby will find this task impossible. If your reason for learning is to be able to watch Totoro with no subtitles, then perhaps.... maaaybe you can attain that goal, but high-level language like mastered by Koichi-san (reading articles without ふりがな on <a href="http://asahi.com" rel="nofollow">asahi.com</a>) or writing articles or doing translations will continue to elude you until you can transfer it from an 1/2hour-per-day hobby/chore status to a life-vital4-5 hours-per-day, i.e. if you can combine it with your daily life or paying work. I have seen the same phenomenon with foreigners who come to my country to learn Russian - their base knowledge gleaned from books becomes useless after a point and the only way to continue to improve is: daily INTERACTION with native speakers! (^^)<br><br>Nothing worth having is ever easy! OSU!! - Oleg from Riga Brilliantly put, Koichi-san!
The business of language study, I feel should go together with tourism and travel – things are very hard for a student of Japanese who's never been to the Old Country.
I studied Japanese for over 4 years with 3 private tutors (same one for the first 3 years and 2 others for about a year and a half). In 2007 I completed みんなの日本語 II and mastered the skill set required to pass JLPT 3-kyu. At times progress felt slow, but I worked hard and progress happened. After this point though, I reached a dead end: for the next 2 years I continued to work with my teacher once per week, my daily kanji practice, learning vocabulary, etc. However, even though I understand the theory about how けいご sentences are formed and know a fair amount of upper-intermediary grammar, I still struggle to hold a daily conversation with a good friend about basic things. It's weird – put an exercise in front of me and I can do it, but it takes me 8-12 hours or more to write a one-page letter to my friend about my day (a conflict of too much grammar and theory in my head). Over the past 8 months I've slacked on my study because work intensified significantly with the crisis, but I plan to take it up again. However, I believe now from experience that the only way to push past this step is to actually GO to live in Japan for a few months and/or work for a Japanese company. I know many people flirt with the language for a year or two and think that they can keep it as a hobby, however, anyone over 25 with no Japanese roots and who has not yet made enough money to retire or just coasts through life as a trust fund baby will find this task impossible. If your reason for learning is to be able to watch Totoro with no subtitles, then perhaps…. maaaybe you can attain that goal, but high-level language like mastered by Koichi-san (reading articles without ふりがな on asahi.com) or writing articles or doing translations will continue to elude you until you can transfer it from an 1/2hour-per-day hobby/chore status to a life-vital4-5 hours-per-day, i.e. if you can combine it with your daily life or paying work. I have seen the same phenomenon with foreigners who come to my country to learn Russian – their base knowledge gleaned from books becomes useless after a point and the only way to continue to improve is: daily INTERACTION with native speakers! (^^)

Nothing worth having is ever easy! OSU!! – Oleg from Riga

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]]> By: MK http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/27/beginning-japanese-iii-taking-steps/comment-page-2/#comment-13064 MK Sat, 13 Jun 2009 03:29:38 +0000 http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/27/beginning-japanese-iii-taking-steps/#comment-13064 We'll call this falling down the stairs to realize what you know --<br>I had 4 semesters of Japanese in college, which is just enough time to squeeze in the two Genki books. However, my Japanese has fallen out of use, and I find myself restudying things to get back into the swing of it. What's frustrating about this is that there are little things that I forgot without practice amidst a wealth of what I already know, which means 70% of what I reviews is stuff I remember. The encouraging thing is realizing how much I know, however, and I can verify the steps thing in this regard because I recognize things from when I took my first steps towards learning the language. I remember grammar points and tests largely. Things I struggled with ages ago when I learned it is easy to recover now in review. So even as someone who has fallen down some stairs lately, I can guarantee there is a magnificent thing that happens every so often -- my personal favorite being conjugating short forms without having to think about it, very satisfying. We'll call this falling down the stairs to realize what you know –
I had 4 semesters of Japanese in college, which is just enough time to squeeze in the two Genki books. However, my Japanese has fallen out of use, and I find myself restudying things to get back into the swing of it. What's frustrating about this is that there are little things that I forgot without practice amidst a wealth of what I already know, which means 70% of what I reviews is stuff I remember. The encouraging thing is realizing how much I know, however, and I can verify the steps thing in this regard because I recognize things from when I took my first steps towards learning the language. I remember grammar points and tests largely. Things I struggled with ages ago when I learned it is easy to recover now in review. So even as someone who has fallen down some stairs lately, I can guarantee there is a magnificent thing that happens every so often — my personal favorite being conjugating short forms without having to think about it, very satisfying.

]]> By: eDRoaCH http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/27/beginning-japanese-iii-taking-steps/comment-page-2/#comment-13027 eDRoaCH Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:59:49 +0000 http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/27/beginning-japanese-iii-taking-steps/#comment-13027 I read a great book called Mastery by George Leonard that talks about this phenomena. It basically applies to all learning in life, and it is like steps. It's short, I highly recommend it.<br><br>Oh and alcohol IS a great tool for most people. We all know it drops some of the barriers between the brain and the mouth, and loosening up is an important factor. Though while you think you are way better, at least some of it has to do with the fact that the native speakers have more of an ability to figure out what you are saying than you give credit for normally.<br><br>Now dont think I'm telling everyone to go out and drink! I read a great book called Mastery by George Leonard that talks about this phenomena. It basically applies to all learning in life, and it is like steps. It's short, I highly recommend it.

Oh and alcohol IS a great tool for most people. We all know it drops some of the barriers between the brain and the mouth, and loosening up is an important factor. Though while you think you are way better, at least some of it has to do with the fact that the native speakers have more of an ability to figure out what you are saying than you give credit for normally.

Now dont think I'm telling everyone to go out and drink!

]]> By: NintendoExpedition http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/27/beginning-japanese-iii-taking-steps/comment-page-2/#comment-12324 NintendoExpedition Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:05:44 +0000 http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/27/beginning-japanese-iii-taking-steps/#comment-12324 Funny stuff. I never really thought of it as a staircase with a ninja on top (although a few of my friends have). Funny stuff. I never really thought of it as a staircase with a ninja on top (although a few of my friends have).

]]> By: Shinki http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/27/beginning-japanese-iii-taking-steps/comment-page-2/#comment-11129 Shinki Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:08:48 +0000 http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/27/beginning-japanese-iii-taking-steps/#comment-11129 Erm what program is dat? Erm what program is dat?

]]> By: SarahXin http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/27/beginning-japanese-iii-taking-steps/comment-page-2/#comment-10213 SarahXin Thu, 02 Oct 2008 23:40:26 +0000 http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/27/beginning-japanese-iii-taking-steps/#comment-10213 I love this site, it's so helpful. =] And wow, Immelmann, thanks for your post. I'm a self-taught high schooler (nobody offers Japanese in New Hampshire!! T_T) so it can get really discouraging. I love this site, it's so helpful. =] And wow, Immelmann, thanks for your post. I'm a self-taught high schooler (nobody offers Japanese in New Hampshire!! T_T) so it can get really discouraging.

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