Beginning Japanese III: Taking Steps
27. Aug, 2007
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Surprisingly, learning Japanese really is like going up stairs in a wheelchair, possibly sans the ninja. I get so many emails of people asking me why their Japanese isn’t getting any better. Here’s how these emails usually go:
Hey Koichi, I’ve been studying Japanese for a few years now. I take classes, I talk with Japanese people, and I use flashcards for kanji…but I don’t feel like I’m getting any better. What am I doing wrong?
Response: You just have to keep on studying. Not “getting any better” is really normal. You’ll feel like this for a while, and then all of a sudden a bunch of things will fall right into place. You just need to keep on persevering, and then there will be a moment where everything suddenly gets better!
I don’t really delve into the details of this phenomenon via email, so I’d like to take this opportunity to tell you everything I know (which might not be that much, so all of you studying out there can help me).
Here’s my story. I started studying Japanese in high school, and spent two years stumbling through the language. After going to Japan for a year, I learned that there were, in fact, distinct steps in the Japanese learning process.
Although it is different for each person and each situation, most people feel like they are climbing stairs when learning Japanese. Here’s what might happen:
- You will study-study-study, and you’ll feel like you are getting nowhere. It’s okay! Keep studying and you will be fine.
- After a while you will feel upset at yourself for not getting any better (optional)
- All of a sudden, everything will fall right into place. It really will feel like you’ve “leveled-up;” like you’ve picked up a Mario Mushroom. You won’t suddenly become fluent, but there are distinct levels and feelings to each level, and each one feels like a fairly large jump.
So there you have it! When I was in Japan it felt like every two months I would suddenly make the move upwards. While studying not in Japan, those level-ups take a lot longer. Wherever you are, though, expect sudden advancement when you least expect it. You just have to persevere through the hard times and you’ll be rewarded for sure.
People who have been studying Japanese for a while: Please share your stories! Please let us know if this is true or if I’m making it all up. It definitely is true for myself and for others I know, but I’m excited to see what others have to say.
No related posts.
Just wanted to leave my two bits — as a lot of people have said, the pattern of improvement-frustration-improvement is definitely the case for language learning. I’ve often wondered why. I find that often when I’m studying Japanese the hardest my ability actually seems to go *down* a bit. I think that our minds need some time to integrate new knowledge and that, in fact, that integration takes energy too. Perhaps that’s why there’s that time-lag between the work and the improvement; there’s an invisible stage we all go through where it all sinks in. If that’s the case then that feeling of “magical” improvement is just the slightly delayed result of hard work.
Just wanted to leave my two bits — as a lot of people have said, the pattern of improvement-frustration-improvement is definitely the case for language learning. I’ve often wondered why. I find that often when I’m studying Japanese the hardest my ability actually seems to go *down* a bit. I think that our minds need some time to integrate new knowledge and that, in fact, that integration takes energy too. Perhaps that’s why there’s that time-lag between the work and the improvement; there’s an invisible stage we all go through where it all sinks in. If that’s the case then that feeling of “magical” improvement is just the slightly delayed result of hard work.
hey mathias can you link the program by any chance?
hey mathias can you link the program by any chance?
Seems the most of you have an upper advantage though; Japanese Classes/Courses.
Unfortunately in this northern abandoned part of Norway there’s no such thing.
Another problem is I don’t have any education so most of those programs, if there were any available, I would not be eligible for them. The last 6 months I’ve been contacting different schools in both Norway and Japan, as well as the friggin’ Embassy of Japan over here :) Trying to figure out what my chances are to actually move to Japan to learn the language and then see where that might take me. However the information received has been sparse and I feel kinda lost in the dark not knowing who to talk to/contact now… I would think though if I manage to find some “cheap” international Japanese Language School in Japan the State Educational Loan Fund might chip in and thar be hope!
Anyways… Self-studdy isn’t impossible I guess but I imagine it takes way longer than actually being around Japanese/Japanese speaking people like you say and especially taking a class where you have a plan to follow. Figuring out what books to get for self-study is pretty hard (and expensive) since each one has their own learning style and recommendations rarerly help then unfortunately.
Blargh, enough self-pity… Loving the site and your vids, Koichi, keep on keepin’ on!
Seems the most of you have an upper advantage though; Japanese Classes/Courses.
Unfortunately in this northern abandoned part of Norway there’s no such thing.
Another problem is I don’t have any education so most of those programs, if there were any available, I would not be eligible for them. The last 6 months I’ve been contacting different schools in both Norway and Japan, as well as the friggin’ Embassy of Japan over here :) Trying to figure out what my chances are to actually move to Japan to learn the language and then see where that might take me. However the information received has been sparse and I feel kinda lost in the dark not knowing who to talk to/contact now… I would think though if I manage to find some “cheap” international Japanese Language School in Japan the State Educational Loan Fund might chip in and thar be hope!
Anyways… Self-studdy isn’t impossible I guess but I imagine it takes way longer than actually being around Japanese/Japanese speaking people like you say and especially taking a class where you have a plan to follow. Figuring out what books to get for self-study is pretty hard (and expensive) since each one has their own learning style and recommendations rarerly help then unfortunately.
Blargh, enough self-pity… Loving the site and your vids, Koichi, keep on keepin’ on!
@ Kim Ruben: [In Norwegian]
UiO har et språkkurs for japansk, om du er interessert. Selvsagt, om du bor i fuckings Finnmark eller på Svalbard skjønner jeg at du er frustrert. Google “talk now japanese” for språkkurs til PC/Mac. De finnes i mange forskjellige nivåer, så det går an å komme ganske langt på bare det. Om du i tillegg laster ned Skype, og henger på steder som dette (samtidig som du får adressene til folk) kan du komme enda lenger, nesten gratis..
[In English]
University of Oslo has a Japanese course, if youre interested. Of course, if you live in fucking Finnmark (way way north) or on Svalbard (…Its an island… In the ocean…), I understand your frustration. Google “talk now Japanese” for language trainers for PC/Mac. They’re available in many different levels, so you can get pretty far on them alone. If you also download Skype, and hang around places like this (while getting the adresses of people) you can go even further, almost for free..
I only know a few scattered words in Japanese, as I’ve only picked up a few things via anime and hentai, surprisingly. BUT! I intend on going there for education later on, be it on my own, or with some course, i dont know.
Step thingie sounds plausible, and i adore the illustration with the ninja illustrating japanese, killing the student with a grammar shuriken of 運命.
@ Kim Ruben: [In Norwegian]
UiO har et språkkurs for japansk, om du er interessert. Selvsagt, om du bor i fuckings Finnmark eller på Svalbard skjønner jeg at du er frustrert. Google “talk now japanese” for språkkurs til PC/Mac. De finnes i mange forskjellige nivåer, så det går an å komme ganske langt på bare det. Om du i tillegg laster ned Skype, og henger på steder som dette (samtidig som du får adressene til folk) kan du komme enda lenger, nesten gratis..
[In English]
University of Oslo has a Japanese course, if youre interested. Of course, if you live in fucking Finnmark (way way north) or on Svalbard (…Its an island… In the ocean…), I understand your frustration. Google “talk now Japanese” for language trainers for PC/Mac. They’re available in many different levels, so you can get pretty far on them alone. If you also download Skype, and hang around places like this (while getting the adresses of people) you can go even further, almost for free..
I only know a few scattered words in Japanese, as I’ve only picked up a few things via anime and hentai, surprisingly. BUT! I intend on going there for education later on, be it on my own, or with some course, i dont know.
Step thingie sounds plausible, and i adore the illustration with the ninja illustrating japanese, killing the student with a grammar shuriken of 運命.
Åh, bare språkkurs alene? Høres jo greit ut, men så er jeg litt skeptisk til sånt (her i Norge) siden man ikke får brukt det så mye ellers, om man ikke såklart, som du nevner, ordner seg en god del japansktalende kontakter via Skype eller noe lignende. Skal sjekke ut det programmet selv om jeg har hatt litt dårlig erfaring med slikt tidligere. Takker for tipsene. Thanks. ありがとうございます
Åh, bare språkkurs alene? Høres jo greit ut, men så er jeg litt skeptisk til sånt (her i Norge) siden man ikke får brukt det så mye ellers, om man ikke såklart, som du nevner, ordner seg en god del japansktalende kontakter via Skype eller noe lignende. Skal sjekke ut det programmet selv om jeg har hatt litt dårlig erfaring med slikt tidligere. Takker for tipsene. Thanks. ありがとうございます
I’m going to go against the grain here and disagree with you. For me, there was no point in time where I noticed a substantial increase in ability. It’s been much more consistent and gradual. The way I learn Japanese doesn’t even make sense to myself. I don’t really have a particular method or style of remembering things. No association, not huge repetition saga’s, no massive study sessions. I used to try these things but they are really inefficient time wise. Now I’ve just given up and decided to just learn things on instinct. Which I believe is the best way to learn any language because think of the way you use your first language.
Do you first construct the sentence in your head? Do you look for associated items to help you remember words? No, you just say it because it’s instinct and you know what to do from habit. You’re so familiar with things you don’t even need to think in order to construct sentences.
I once asked an international student from Laos how he learned the English language and whether he thought about what he was going to say in his first language first then translate it or just say it right out in English. He said originally he’d translate it, but after a while he went straight to English.
I don’t know if any of this will make sense to you but immersion is the best way to learn a language. If you don’t have an environment to throw yourself into, just use the language at every opportunity you get. Stop thinking in English and start to think in Japanese, it helps you turn things that you used to have to track down from your memory into readily available words and phrases that can be used on instinct.
I’m going to go against the grain here and disagree with you. For me, there was no point in time where I noticed a substantial increase in ability. It’s been much more consistent and gradual. The way I learn Japanese doesn’t even make sense to myself. I don’t really have a particular method or style of remembering things. No association, not huge repetition saga’s, no massive study sessions. I used to try these things but they are really inefficient time wise. Now I’ve just given up and decided to just learn things on instinct. Which I believe is the best way to learn any language because think of the way you use your first language.
Do you first construct the sentence in your head? Do you look for associated items to help you remember words? No, you just say it because it’s instinct and you know what to do from habit. You’re so familiar with things you don’t even need to think in order to construct sentences.
I once asked an international student from Laos how he learned the English language and whether he thought about what he was going to say in his first language first then translate it or just say it right out in English. He said originally he’d translate it, but after a while he went straight to English.
I don’t know if any of this will make sense to you but immersion is the best way to learn a language. If you don’t have an environment to throw yourself into, just use the language at every opportunity you get. Stop thinking in English and start to think in Japanese, it helps you turn things that you used to have to track down from your memory into readily available words and phrases that can be used on instinct.
omg some off you guyx are really lucky that you learn jap at school i need to learn it with own strength, btw anybody has a good succetion how and where i must learn jap on the web offcourse well that would be a great help, btw i want to learn jap because i’m going to study there in 2012-13 hehe so it’ll be handy if i could learn much in these years ^^ all help is welcome!:D
Tim:
I’m glad you’re going to go study Japanese in a few years! It’ll be a great experience, A little word of advice, though: the term “jap” is pretty politically incorrect, and I would strongly advise you not to use it.
omg some off you guyx are really lucky that you learn jap at school i need to learn it with own strength, btw anybody has a good succetion how and where i must learn jap on the web offcourse well that would be a great help, btw i want to learn jap because i’m going to study there in 2012-13 hehe so it’ll be handy if i could learn much in these years ^^ all help is welcome!:D
Tim:
I’m glad you’re going to go study Japanese in a few years! It’ll be a great experience, A little word of advice, though: the term “jap” is pretty politically incorrect, and I would strongly advise you not to use it.
I’ve only just begun learning Japanese. Unfortunately, I can’t take Japanese lessons, because they’re too expensive. The ‘only’ languages we can (and have to) learn at school are English, French, German, Dutch (I live in the Netherlands), and if you’re on a really high level when it comes to school, Latin and Greek.
I’m trying to learn Japanese from a CD, but it’s not really working. And I can’t find a (free) way to learn the Japanese ‘alfabets’.
I agree about your theory.
It was the same for me learning English.
Not getting anywhere, and then, all of a sudden, another leap forward.
I’ve only just begun learning Japanese. Unfortunately, I can’t take Japanese lessons, because they’re too expensive. The ‘only’ languages we can (and have to) learn at school are English, French, German, Dutch (I live in the Netherlands), and if you’re on a really high level when it comes to school, Latin and Greek.
I’m trying to learn Japanese from a CD, but it’s not really working. And I can’t find a (free) way to learn the Japanese ‘alfabets’.
I agree about your theory.
It was the same for me learning English.
Not getting anywhere, and then, all of a sudden, another leap forward.
Kelly,
Japanese alphabet would first be Hiragana, then Katakana, then if you’re brave, dive into Kanji. There are plenty of places to learn these for free. Just memorize the characters and what sound is attached to them. The kanji learning may not be easy to find for free, but you may find something. For audio learning, try Japanesepod101.com’s podcast which I believe is free, and you can download their lessons (over 500) and listen any time. Good luck with your study.
Kelly,
Japanese alphabet would first be Hiragana, then Katakana, then if you’re brave, dive into Kanji. There are plenty of places to learn these for free. Just memorize the characters and what sound is attached to them. The kanji learning may not be easy to find for free, but you may find something. For audio learning, try Japanesepod101.com’s podcast which I believe is free, and you can download their lessons (over 500) and listen any time. Good luck with your study.
Thanks a lot.
I’ll check right a way.
Thanks a lot.
I’ll check right a way.
Ah! I completely understand where your going with this. It’s funny too because this happened to me today. (not on a large scale mind you but it was still an accomplishment in my book)
This semester I began to take Japanese in college and I’m about a good 3 months ish into it…and because my teacher is evil >:D *but in a good way* We’ve memorized all of the Hiragana and Katakana now we’re focusing mostly on kanji, vocab and sentence structure….Well after all this studying I felt as if I wasn’t getting better at all infact I felt all the japanese that I could muster was the sentence that my teacher required me to translate during class when he would call on me…or so I thought >.>
So today I was hanging up my clothes after school and was going over Japanese in my mind and then I started rattling off long sentences about my day, what I did yesterday what I want to do today, eat, what I saw etc etc etc. But it was strange, as if I just climbed up one of those miniscule steps.
Thats just a bit of my experience…now I have to go study some more so I can climb that next step :P
Happy Learning!
Ah! I completely understand where your going with this. It’s funny too because this happened to me today. (not on a large scale mind you but it was still an accomplishment in my book)
This semester I began to take Japanese in college and I’m about a good 3 months ish into it…and because my teacher is evil >:D *but in a good way* We’ve memorized all of the Hiragana and Katakana now we’re focusing mostly on kanji, vocab and sentence structure….Well after all this studying I felt as if I wasn’t getting better at all infact I felt all the japanese that I could muster was the sentence that my teacher required me to translate during class when he would call on me…or so I thought >.>
So today I was hanging up my clothes after school and was going over Japanese in my mind and then I started rattling off long sentences about my day, what I did yesterday what I want to do today, eat, what I saw etc etc etc. But it was strange, as if I just climbed up one of those miniscule steps.
Thats just a bit of my experience…now I have to go study some more so I can climb that next step :P
Happy Learning!
Wow you are so right about that! It’s the same with drawing. There are these long periods where nothing seems to come out right, then just one day my drawing ability comes back and always better! It’s a really weird phenomenon but it defiantly happens in languages too! The main thing is, is just sticking it out!
Wow you are so right about that! It’s the same with drawing. There are these long periods where nothing seems to come out right, then just one day my drawing ability comes back and always better! It’s a really weird phenomenon but it defiantly happens in languages too! The main thing is, is just sticking it out!
Hey, Koichi, I love the blog and youtube channel!
I don’t study Japanese yet, but I plan to in the future. This “level-up” phenomenon is quite true, I’ve noticed, with most languages. It’s been happnening to me with Spanish. I study nearly every day, but it is only every other week or so that I notice even the slightest improvements. Friends of mine have talked about the same thing with French and Chinese.
Keep up the good work!
Hey, Koichi, I love the blog and youtube channel!
I don’t study Japanese yet, but I plan to in the future. This “level-up” phenomenon is quite true, I’ve noticed, with most languages. It’s been happnening to me with Spanish. I study nearly every day, but it is only every other week or so that I notice even the slightest improvements. Friends of mine have talked about the same thing with French and Chinese.
Keep up the good work!
Hey,
I’m having trouble with kanjii and sentence structure.Along time ago I found this really cool site that helped me understand kanjii and how it makes meanings.Now I forget what the site is and of what I learned.
Hey,
I’m having trouble with kanjii and sentence structure.Along time ago I found this really cool site that helped me understand kanjii and how it makes meanings.Now I forget what the site is and of what I learned.
Immelmann, thanks a ton for the post. That’s some legit advice from an experienced learner. Although this taking steps post is inspiring and all, it really hasn’t directly helped me figure out how to learn Japanese more easily. Your post, however, has some really great tips. This Koichi guy did have one piece of advice though, and you agreed with him on it: study. That’s definitely something I’ve got to work on.
I’m actually 1 month into Japan right now. I studied at college for about 8 months before I came over. My number 1 difficulty the whole time I’ve been here is vocab. I feel like when it comes to speaking I’ve got the grammar down decently well but vocab just completely limits me from understanding anything. When I’m talking with co-workers we are constantly bringing out our phones to translate words. I love this word association idea, and I’m going to give it a shot. I think if I just get some kind of practice going every day though I’ll be in much better shape.
Immelmann, thanks a ton for the post. That’s some legit advice from an experienced learner. Although this taking steps post is inspiring and all, it really hasn’t directly helped me figure out how to learn Japanese more easily. Your post, however, has some really great tips. This Koichi guy did have one piece of advice though, and you agreed with him on it: study. That’s definitely something I’ve got to work on.
I’m actually 1 month into Japan right now. I studied at college for about 8 months before I came over. My number 1 difficulty the whole time I’ve been here is vocab. I feel like when it comes to speaking I’ve got the grammar down decently well but vocab just completely limits me from understanding anything. When I’m talking with co-workers we are constantly bringing out our phones to translate words. I love this word association idea, and I’m going to give it a shot. I think if I just get some kind of practice going every day though I’ll be in much better shape.
I love this site, it's so helpful. =] And wow, Immelmann, thanks for your post. I'm a self-taught high schooler (nobody offers Japanese in New Hampshire!! T_T) so it can get really discouraging.
Erm what program is dat?
Funny stuff. I never really thought of it as a staircase with a ninja on top (although a few of my friends have).
I read a great book called Mastery by George Leonard that talks about this phenomena. It basically applies to all learning in life, and it is like steps. It's short, I highly recommend it.
Oh and alcohol IS a great tool for most people. We all know it drops some of the barriers between the brain and the mouth, and loosening up is an important factor. Though while you think you are way better, at least some of it has to do with the fact that the native speakers have more of an ability to figure out what you are saying than you give credit for normally.
Now dont think I'm telling everyone to go out and drink!
We'll call this falling down the stairs to realize what you know –
I had 4 semesters of Japanese in college, which is just enough time to squeeze in the two Genki books. However, my Japanese has fallen out of use, and I find myself restudying things to get back into the swing of it. What's frustrating about this is that there are little things that I forgot without practice amidst a wealth of what I already know, which means 70% of what I reviews is stuff I remember. The encouraging thing is realizing how much I know, however, and I can verify the steps thing in this regard because I recognize things from when I took my first steps towards learning the language. I remember grammar points and tests largely. Things I struggled with ages ago when I learned it is easy to recover now in review. So even as someone who has fallen down some stairs lately, I can guarantee there is a magnificent thing that happens every so often — my personal favorite being conjugating short forms without having to think about it, very satisfying.
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Brilliantly put, Koichi-san!
The business of language study, I feel should go together with tourism and travel – things are very hard for a student of Japanese who's never been to the Old Country.
I studied Japanese for over 4 years with 3 private tutors (same one for the first 3 years and 2 others for about a year and a half). In 2007 I completed みんなの日本語 II and mastered the skill set required to pass JLPT 3-kyu. At times progress felt slow, but I worked hard and progress happened. After this point though, I reached a dead end: for the next 2 years I continued to work with my teacher once per week, my daily kanji practice, learning vocabulary, etc. However, even though I understand the theory about how けいご sentences are formed and know a fair amount of upper-intermediary grammar, I still struggle to hold a daily conversation with a good friend about basic things. It's weird – put an exercise in front of me and I can do it, but it takes me 8-12 hours or more to write a one-page letter to my friend about my day (a conflict of too much grammar and theory in my head). Over the past 8 months I've slacked on my study because work intensified significantly with the crisis, but I plan to take it up again. However, I believe now from experience that the only way to push past this step is to actually GO to live in Japan for a few months and/or work for a Japanese company. I know many people flirt with the language for a year or two and think that they can keep it as a hobby, however, anyone over 25 with no Japanese roots and who has not yet made enough money to retire or just coasts through life as a trust fund baby will find this task impossible. If your reason for learning is to be able to watch Totoro with no subtitles, then perhaps…. maaaybe you can attain that goal, but high-level language like mastered by Koichi-san (reading articles without ふりがな on asahi.com) or writing articles or doing translations will continue to elude you until you can transfer it from an 1/2hour-per-day hobby/chore status to a life-vital4-5 hours-per-day, i.e. if you can combine it with your daily life or paying work. I have seen the same phenomenon with foreigners who come to my country to learn Russian – their base knowledge gleaned from books becomes useless after a point and the only way to continue to improve is: daily INTERACTION with native speakers! (^^)
Nothing worth having is ever easy! OSU!! – Oleg from Riga
Very good article; this is exatly how learning Japanese works. In fact, this is how learning any skill works.
There's a book I read a long time ago called Mastery: The Keys to Success and Long-Term Fullfillment by George Leonard that outlines exactly what you said. Namely, that your ability in a given skill will rise quickly at first, then you plateau for a long time before it happens again. The best thing to do about this is to simply know that it's coming and accept it as part of the process. “The Master's learning curve rises quickly, plateaus for a while, and with consistent practice, rises again with some regression and plateaus again for a while and so on. The Master knows that Mastery is a lifetime path. The Master enjoys living on the plateau. The Master knows that while he is on the plateau, learning is happening and practice will inevitably raise him to a higher level.”
So enjoy pushing through the tough times! Once you push through your couple of plateaus, you're probably doing better than 95% of the people who have tried to learn that skill (in my experience). Feels good man.
Very good article; this is exatly how learning Japanese works. In fact, this is how learning any skill works.
There's a book I read a long time ago called Mastery: The Keys to Success and Long-Term Fullfillment by George Leonard that outlines exactly what you said. Namely, that your ability in a given skill will rise quickly at first, then you plateau for a long time before it happens again. The best thing to do about this is to simply know that it's coming and accept it as part of the process. “The Master's learning curve rises quickly, plateaus for a while, and with consistent practice, rises again with some regression and plateaus again for a while and so on. The Master knows that Mastery is a lifetime path. The Master enjoys living on the plateau. The Master knows that while he is on the plateau, learning is happening and practice will inevitably raise him to a higher level.”
So enjoy pushing through the tough times! Once you push through your couple of plateaus, you're probably doing better than 95% of the people who have tried to learn that skill (in my experience). Feels good man.